[monopole]

The MTM graph is here on the 404 stock graph, the red line shaunee.

[Roy]

Edited by Roy, 29 August 2016 - 09:26 PM.

[RS3rick]

Just for comparison, my MK1 RS3, with revo intake, revo stage 1, and miltek cat back with secondary cat delete ran 429bhp and 488lb/ft. Always ran on v power. Wish i would have come yesterday as it would have been interesting to see it compaired to these cars

[Chungster]

Did that Nissan do as expected too Steve or not??


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[Fivepotfan]

Did that Nissan do as expected too Steve or not??


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I think the Nissan 350Z ran 258 and 261bhp, the young lad seemed quite chuffed at that so don't know if that was good or not.

 

The other guy with the nice blue Subaru WRX STi (it did sound nice with that big exhaust) said he felt a little embarrassed as his car only ran 306bhp compared to a bunch of standard RS3's getting nearly 400.   

[Chungster]

Lol at Scooby guy. Think that car had boost issues looking at Charlie's reaction to the runs! Depends on how old that 350Z is I guess - that 3.5 V6 ranges from 276bhp to 313bhp. But if the guy seemed chuffed then must be about right.

Defo happy with our numbers


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[monopole]

350Z was 13 yrs old, book from new = 276BHP I think, so circa 260 yesterday is why that young chap was happy

[monopole]

...... not as happy of course..... as several RS3 owners yesterday

[Shaunee]

Based on the data I have from my own car, these stock RS3's certainly have a good whack of power.  I can appreciate this by the terminal speeds I have gained on the quarter mile.... this is a good way of judging power at the wheels.

 

For information, the terminals on a stock RS3 are not that far behind a Tuning Boxed A45..... those are around 415bhp.  You can't use this as a scientific comparison, but it gives an indication that the RS3 is not 360 odd bhp stock imo.

 

However......

 

I personally think that for a car using the Haldex 4WD system, the fixed percentage for drag losses that Dyno Dynamics RR's use (under Shootout mode) is on the generous side.  In this mode a fixed % is applied to what is measured at the wheels.  Haldex is very efficient compared to traditional permanent AWD systems, that in reality is what the Shootout mode had been for (% wise - associated to EVO's actually IIRC).

 

Its also worth appreciating that manufacturers (and some dyno operators nowadays) use the EWG power correction standard on dynos.  DIN is the older standard, but still widely used across the UK.  DIN will normally give slightly higher figures.

 

The results are what they are though.

 

EddieRS3,

I haven't found that the Bosch MED17 ECU needs "time to adapt" personally.  The ecu responds instantly and dynamically to sensor readings, constantly (if needed) trimming / compensating.

 

The A45 uses the same family of ECU and when I tested a tuning box, back to back dyno runs showed immediate changes in the power curve.  To the point that when I was altering between runs, maps on the tuning box, I was seeing immediate changes in the dyno data.

 

Monopole,

There doesn't appear to be any issues with wheel slip based on those graphs I'm afraid.

 

It looks like it's pulling ignition imo.

 

Ignition logs will quickly show if this is a the case.

 

There could be a couple of obvious areas that could be causing this.  Either the box is being too aggressive at the top end and the ECU is pulling ignition, and/or you had some pretty high charge temps and the ECU was pulling ignition.

 

Had you ran VCDS on the car, all answers would be given. 

 

Did Charlie log boost and AFR?

[Shaunee]

This is also a reason why I like to compare other data, like VBOX, to gauge real performance increases from tuning.  If the car accelerates quicker, especially in-gear, it is more powerful. Peak figures don't mean a fat lot in isolation.

Edited by Shaunee, 28 August 2016 - 10:39 AM.

[monopole]

Cheers for the feedback Shaunee, I have this other plot, but unsure what it is telling me;

Edited by monopole, 28 August 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Shaunee]

Monopole,

That's your AFR's which look fine.

 

These cars, very much like the A45, appear to run quite lean compared to what I'm used to on tuned Subaru's for instance.  I suspect this is down to the direct fuel injection in place (on the A45 and RS3).

[Fivepotfan]

Cheers for the feedback Shaunee, I have this other plot, but unsure what it is telling me;

 

Its telling you that you have a very quick little hatchback

 

Might be even quicker if the box was behaving itself. I think Shaunee may be right about the ECU pulling back the power at the higher rpm.

 

Can you set up some data logging using the VCDS when you run it next week at SP?

[monopole]

Yep I can do both stock and MTM logs next week, if someone can confirm the steps in vcds to take these logs (I don't wanna come back with a bunch of wrong uns!!!)

[Shaunee]

I haven't looked at logging in VCDS yet, but it shouldn't be too difficult to work out.

If I get time this afternoon I'll have a look at the measuring blocks available, as I need to start doing all of this myself soon.

[Shaunee]

You'll need (IMO) ignition, actual boost, inlet temps and RPM.

Comparing this between stock and tuned will provide valuable reference for you mate.

[Shaunee]

Monopole,

I've had a quick look at VCDS logging options but not actually gone out and logged any data, so I'm just using my best / logical assumptions that these data elements will provide relevant information.

 

Anyway.... Tick the following in the Advanced Measuring Values under Engine:

 

Engine speed - Log RPM

 

Charge air pressure: actual value - Not sure which sensor this is using, as this maybe the sensor that's manipulated with your tuning box (if it is, you won't see the real boost pressure the car is running with the tuning box, just what the ECU thinks it's running). I'm sure I saw a sensor reading for pressure at the turbo and manifold, so you could look at those two as well.

 

Intake air temperature - Log charge air temp post intercooler.

 

Outside air temperature - Not really needed but gives reference for delta between ambient and charge temp, post intercooler.

 

Current of oxygen sensor bank 1 sensor 1 - I'm assuming this will give you your lambda (fuelling) readings.

 

Ignition timing adjustment cylinder 1 - I'm assuming this will give you your overall ignition value attained.

 

Timing angle retardation cylinder 1 (2, 3, 4, & 5) - Should show how much ignition retard is being applied by cylinder.

 

Hopefully that will be enough to see what's going on.

 

You can do all of this on the road yourself.... no need for the dyno.

 

Just do a full gear pull, say in 3rd (or 4th if you feel like it), from low revs to the redline.  Do a couple stock and a couple with the tuning box on.  Same stretch of road and day would be good.

Edited by Shaunee, 28 August 2016 - 05:14 PM.

[Eigdoog]

Sounds like next week could be a good data logging day! 

 

Shaunee Could you explain what we are looking at with the AFR graph? Just for a little insight ourselves. Also with my AFR sheet its totally different to mono's so would be nice to know what we are looking for. 

[Shaunee]

Mostly to see what the fueling is like at the top end really, and to compare his stock AFRs with his tuning box AFRs.

Put yours up if you like.

[Fivepotfan]

Just took a look at my AFR's - running slightly richer than Monopole's at around 11 to  his 11.5 at peak rpm.

 

Its been a few years but from memory (please feel free to correct me Shaunee) the lower the air fuel ratio number (AFR) the richer the engine is running. A normal figure for a standard modern performance car would be around 11 or so (slightly lean) with a tuned car seeing lower numbers (ie; richer), maybe into the 8 or 9's at peak rpm.

 

Higher numbers (13 and above) indicate a leaner running engine - good for fuel economy but not so good for performance engines (potential for damage).

Edited by Fivepotfan, 28 August 2016 - 08:40 PM.