[SA_RS3]

Anything futher on this topic. Seems nothing was solved and nobody got answers.

I was going Apr, but have almost changed my mind to Revo now.

Last I asked Apr if they had emcs and TCU upgrade for this car, I was told not?? Revo have working sps at least.

As for the mobile app, that looks like it only works on Apple devices which I will never buy again in my life....

I really wish I could remap this car myself, but its just too complicated and expensive....

Anyone know of an aftermarket stand alone engine management that can do fsi and talk to s-tronic✌

[Bronco]

Anything futher on this topic. Seems nothing was solved and nobody got answers.

I was going Apr, but have almost changed my mind to Revo now.

Last I asked Apr if they had emcs and TCU upgrade for this car, I was told not?? Revo have working sps at least.

As for the mobile app, that looks like it only works on Apple devices which I will never buy again in my life....

I really wish I could remap this car myself, but its just too complicated and expensive....

Anyone know of an aftermarket stand alone engine management that can do fsi and talk to s-tronic✌

We are currently building an RS3 rally car and it has standalone management by life racing(F1 stuff) It controls engine and centre diff. The car runs a ttrs manual box.

[Evan@APR]

Anything futher on this topic. Seems nothing was solved and nobody got answers.

I was going Apr, but have almost changed my mind to Revo now.

Last I asked Apr if they had emcs and TCU upgrade for this car, I was told not?? Revo have working sps at least.

 

Hello again everybody. Just wanted to let you know we've spent a lot of time analyzing the graphs from here and will be high-speed data logging an RS3 in the near future on the rollers to see if and what power is being lost at the top and if so, why. 

[Kelza]

Hi Evan all going well next month I will be going stage 2 apr so if you need any help

[P_G]

Evan, next time you are on and have the time, perhaps you could enlighten us to a degree regarding the conjecture surrounding the current situation and future of APR since there appears to be a number of people touting rumours of its imminent demise and scaremongering?

[Ove]

My RS3 had, with RICA upgrade, 395 hp and 513 NM

Now with Forge IC, the same software, 417 hp and 526 NM

 

Next step is Wagner downpipe and new software, hope to reach 440 hp.

[Evan@APR]

Hello all,

 

I wanted to take a moment to review with you all the data we’ve collected surrounding your concerns of underperforming RS3s.

 

Working with APR UK (AwesomeGTI) and Mr. John M.—who kindly volunteered his vehicle— we were finally able to collected the data intended to from the defunct, Awesome RS3OC gtg/rr day. Special thanks to John and the team at APR UK!

 

For reference, John’s RS3 is running RS3 Stage 2 software v2.1 with a stock FMIC and a decat downpipe.

 

Step 1: Data Logs and Rolling Road Pulls. With the existing stage 2 hardware and software on the car, AwesomeGTI performed a baseline dyno run yielding ~385bhp, the expected result. This dyno was done Friday evening when the car arrived.

 

After reflashing the car with a mobile-compatible file, the car was rerun and logged Saturday morning yielding a result of 404bhp. It’s important to note here that the calibration on the mobile-compatible software is no different, so it would not yield increased power.

 

Step 2: Review and Comparison. Reviewing the logs we find there is no room for improvement with the current hardware. Requested boost is being met, Mass Air Flow is optimal, and timing advance right where it needs to be. There are certainly other values in the calibration equation, but those are the major talking points for diagnosis here.

 

A few months ago, Awesome had two stage 2 TTRS customers in, one with APR software and one with MRC. We overlaid John’s 404bhp run onto this graph as seen below. This shows the RS3 and the TTRS stage 2 software perform very similarly, and how one could expect our competitors’ software compare, but I digress.

 

 

Step 3: Final Analysis. So how/why did John’s car go from rolling 385bhp Friday night, to 404bhp Saturday morning? After reviewing the data logs, we can now definitively rule out DSG/Haldex torque intervention, and software deficiency. The result lies purely in hardware differences (causing heat soak) and rolling road conditions (IATs).

 

IATs logged on John’s car Friday night went from 42*C to 79*C, and after sitting overnight Saturday they ranged from 28*C to 63*C from beginning to end of the run. At 60deg your car is calibrated to compensate ignition timing -6.75 degrees, and when the IAT’s are 80deg the ignition timing is compensated -8.5 degrees a difference of 1.75 degrees (nearly 2 degrees of advance). This is illustrated in the graph below, the power difference is between a 60 degree ending IAT (-6.75) and an 80 deg ending IAT (-8.5). Notice the power is down by nearly 20bhp between the two runs.

 

 

What you’re looking at is a pull in 3^rd gear (red), and a pull in 5^th gear (blue), demonstrating how dramatically engine heat and warmer intake air temps affect rr results; same car, back-to-back. 

 

For further comparison, here’s our TTRS run 1 vs run 6 on the Dynapack at APR HQ. At the end of run 1 (solid line), IATs are 63*C, and at the end of  run 6 (dashed line), IATs are at 79*C. IATs increased a total of  16*C within SIX runs and that heat soak produced a ~20whp/wtq deficiency.

 

 

Step 4: Conclusion. If you guys want to improve your figures, make sure you’re intercooler is cool, IATs are low and the vehicle has sufficient airflow across the intercooler and radiators, otherwise v2.1 software is optimized for performance and--from all of the comparison dynos I've seen--should outperform any of our competitors' RS3 calibrations.

 

To those of you with uprated intercoolers who are still achieving less-than-desirable figures, all I can say is that I wish we had a HW solution for your car right now, but also we haven’t tested the validity of our competitors’ products. “Uprated” hardware doesn’t always benefit unfortunately. However, if anybody with our software and an intercooler would like to run data logs similar to the above, please contact me directly at elight@goapr.com.

 

Thank you.

Edited by Evan@APR, 27 October 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[Vito]

Hi Evan

 

sorry but I am finding something confusing me a bit here.....I mean, the file v2.1 is a stage 2 file or there is also a v2.1 for stage1? 

 

I had the v2.1 flashed on my RS when it went in at Awesome for the upgrade, so what stage is my car then?

[Paul]

Hi Evan.

Is there any plans to revisit the EMCS style switchable or later APR mobile switchable solutions on the RS3

The anti-theft function would be a definite bonus, as well as the ability to return to standard.

I had this over 10 years ago in 2003 with a rivals dongle based product, which APR would have been well aware of at the time.

With the need to remove and unlock the ECU to allow programming, risking visable signs of tamper etc, adding a few more features for the customer might convince those sitting on the fence?

[Jmcnamee98]

Hi Evan
 
sorry but I am finding something confusing me a bit here.....I mean, the file v2.1 is a stage 2 file or there is also a v2.1 for stage1? 
 
I had the v2.1 flashed on my RS when it went in at Awesome for the upgrade, so what stage is my car then?

Vito this was my car pleased to finally see it achieve over 400 bhp on the rollers and an explanation as to some of the previous low results. Thanks to Evan & Mark for all their work on this. There are various map revisions v1.2 v2.1 etc for each stage of tune e.g. stage I software only, stage II software and downpipe replacement and stage III software downpipe and turbo replacement.

Ok I've simplified a little but you get the gist.

[Evan@APR]

Hey Vito, the software version (v2.1) is independent of the stage, so it also applies to stage 1--it's just the most recent release of the calibration changes if that makes sense. You have stage 2 presumably.

 

 

Hi Evan

 

sorry but I am finding something confusing me a bit here.....I mean, the file v2.1 is a stage 2 file or there is also a v2.1 for stage1? 

 

I had the v2.1 flashed on my RS when it went in at Awesome for the upgrade, so what stage is my car then?

[Evan@APR]

Hi Paul,

 

I continue to push for 2.5T EMCS development. With the release of the new MQB platforms, the engineering team is very focused on their release. We fully understand the value and the need and I hope they are able to address it soon.

 

Hi Evan.

Is there any plans to revisit the EMCS style switchable or later APR mobile switchable solutions on the RS3

The anti-theft function would be a definite bonus, as well as the ability to return to standard.

I had this over 10 years ago in 2003 with a rivals dongle based product, which APR would have been well aware of at the time.

With the need to remove and unlock the ECU to allow programming, risking visable signs of tamper etc, adding a few more features for the customer might convince those sitting on the fence?

[Jmcnamee98]

Hi Paul,
 
I continue to push for 2.5T EMCS development. With the release of the new MQB platforms, the engineering team is very focused on their release. We fully understand the value and the need and I hope they are able to address it soon.

Please do Evan with a bit of a discount or US pricing ;-) I'm sure we could organise a group buy with healthy numbers on here to sell a number of APR mobile dongles to complement it.

I'm in, Mark has just put the mobile map on my car if you tell me it can time 0-60 0-100 quarter mile etc now I'll probably by one anyway.

[Evan@APR]

Hahah it doesn't have time logging capabilities yet, but we're considering those features for future updates.

[Wayne@AWESOME]

Sorry to bring up an old-ish thread, but EcoTune did a stage2+ RS3 last week, graph here:

[Kelza]

I seen that ,very impressive as the fmic is still to get fitted ...

[MacD]

It's a lot colder up there, could explain it too

[Jmcnamee98]

Shame they don't all make these figures ;-) but this one has started high.

[Kelza]

Pph intake will help that's for sure ,if I don't buy a new RS3 I,m on stage 3 next year

[Jmcnamee98]

Pph intake will help that's for sure ,if I don't buy a new RS3 I,m on stage 3 next year

Have you seen the price of the intake though :-D

Is that APR Stage III has that been done on an RS3 or S Tronic TTRS yet?