[Quattro]

This is only to counteract any imbalance without the spacers. As T800 said earlier, a spacer will compound anything small into something larger. But this should not be your case as you say the car was silky smooth without the spacer. BUT, up to what speed was it silky smooth - a small imbalance without the spacer will not necessarily appear at the same speed with a spacer.

Silky smooth well in to 3 figures.
I should also say that the vibration doesn’t seem to come through the steering wheel and comes more through the car, also seems worse if you accelerate hard, like to overtake.

[Quattro]

Just had this reply from H&R

[RS3Dell]

Hal.

Tbh if the wheel bolts are torqued up correctly whether they have a fixed or a floating self aligning seat this wouldn't cause a problem as there be no movement.

Do you have aftermarket wheels ? If i was you I'll check the spacers fit into the centre bore hole fully & have enough depth as the bore hole stops the wheel from moving about not the bolts,they just keep the wheel in place mate.

Dell.

[Quattro]

Standard wheels and the spacers fit flat against the hub and when you try them in to the wheel they are a snug fit and push in flat against the wheel!
If I get time later I’ll take some pics

[T-800]

The only stipulation I was told is that they couldn’t be used on hubs with a longer centre lip, because they won’t sit flat against the hub.

Edited by T-800, 08 October 2018 - 09:07 AM.

[Hal]

Hal.

Tbh if the wheel bolts are torqued up correctly whether they have a fixed or a floating self aligning seat this wouldn't cause a problem as there be no movement.

Do you have aftermarket wheels ? If i was you I'll check the spacers fit into the centre bore hole fully & have enough depth as the bore hole stops the wheel from moving about not the bolts,they just keep the wheel in place mate.

Dell.

Correct!

 

I am OK as I have wheels with an ET32 that sit fine on the hub. My comment re the 'floating washer' bit relates to the radius seats of the wheels - the ability for the seat washer to float is so that it can find the full radius of the seat. (and I should have added that the floating washer will prevent scoring of the seats on tightening)

Edited by Hal, 08 October 2018 - 09:18 AM.

[Hal]

Just had this reply from H&R

 

Just a thought Quattro, reading this mail, and something Dell said - what wheels are you using on this 1655573 spacer? As T800's photo shows quite clearly, there is a 6mm bevel that Yvonne from HR says you must have on the wheel. Audi Rotors will be fine, but I have had this in the past where some aftermarket wheels have a smaller bevel dish making them hard to sit on the wheel and consequently have a bit of run out on them.

[Hal]

Silky smooth well in to 3 figures.
I should also say that the vibration doesn’t seem to come through the steering wheel and comes more through the car, also seems worse if you accelerate hard, like to overtake.

 

Rule of thumb - if you feel vibration through the steering wheel, it is front wheels. If you feel it through your seat/floor, it is rear wheels.

[Quattro]

Rule of thumb - if you feel vibration through the steering wheel, it is front wheels. If you feel it through your seat/floor, it is rear wheels.

Yeah usually, but in my case I only have them on the front!
As said previously I’m on original rotors standard 8J and only tried the spacers on the front.
For it not to come through the steering I wondered if the wheel wasn’t centred correctly so like an egg.
Although the spacers do fit flat, that’s why I was thinking bolts.
Such a simple mod but when it’s like this it ruins the feel of the car🤷‍♀️

[T-800]

Yeah usually, but in my case I only have them on the front!
As said previously I’m on original rotors standard 8J and only tried the spacers on the front.
For it not to come through the steering I wondered if the wheel wasn’t centred correctly so like an egg.
Although the spacers do fit flat, that’s why I was thinking bolts.
Such a simple mod but when it’s like this it ruins the feel of the car🤷‍♀️

Hang about.....

So you only fitted the spacers on the front then went for a drive and had vibration ?

Would it not be prudent to put all four on then have a drive ?

You have widened the track on the fronts but only by virtue of moving the alloy off its original centre line, so I’m wondering if it’s created a scenario whereby the drivetrain isn’t happy about it hence the vibration at high speed.

And for those that would say well is it not like fitting wider fronts ........
Don’t forget on the 8.5j fronts it’s not an issue because the wheel offset is changed as part of the alloy structure and the tyre width / alloy increase is split over both sides.

Edited by T-800, 08 October 2018 - 02:24 PM.

[Quattro]

Hang about.....

So you only fitted the spacers on the front then went for a drive and had vibration ?

Would it not be prudent to put all four on then have a drive ?

You have widened the track on the fronts but only by virtue of moving the alloy off its original centre line, so I’m wondering if it’s created a scenario whereby the drivetrain isn’t happy about it hence the vibration at high speed.

And for those that would say well is it not like fitting wider fronts ........
Don’t forget on the 8.5j fronts it’s not an issue because the wheel offset is changed as part of the alloy structure and the tyre width / alloy increase is split over both sides.

I only bought a pair to see what I thought of the stance before I ordered the other pair.

[JamesBaby]

Will the spacer press fully up against the alloy wheel?. Check it by taking a spacer and press it onto the back of the alloy face. If there is even a tiny gap caused by the bevel, and it does not sit wholly flush against the back pad of the alloy, that will be the problem.

 

If that fits fine, I suspect something is not right with the bolts. If the oem bolts have collars on them, the extended ones should too. 

[Quattro]

Yeah the spacer fully inserts in to the back of the wheel, been all the way round with feeler gauges and no gap.

[JamesBaby]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the OEM wheels need bolts with the rings on them due to the actual PCD of the wheels. Can't recall where though. 

[Quattro]

My original thinking was that the original studs have the floating washer and it must be that.
But then plenty others are running spacers without the floating washers without problem.
I must admit I’m extremely sensitive to vibration/balance problems as 90% of my running is motorway speed during the very early hours.

[T-800]

Yeah the spacer fully inserts in to the back of the wheel, been all the way round with feeler gauges and no gap.

You can buy Grayston loose seat bolts online if your that concerned Kev

I’ve had no issues with bolts coming loose or ones out of torque spec.

Whilst I can see how ‘loose’ seat bolts would promote less risk of bolt movement I don’t feel the need to change.

I’ve been using fixed seat bolts on my winter wheels since 2012 and never had a loose bolt yet.

[Hal]

Going back to the first post Quattro - you say you felt that 8mm gave you a good stance, but looking up spacer 1655573 on HR, it is in fact a 16mm spacer. No matter though, the only difference other than width between the two is that the 16mm will amplify more issues.

 

The main thing is: do you have an artificial axle hub on the spacer - ie, exactly the same as in T800's photo? If you per chance have an 8mm flat spacer, then yes, you will have all sorts of problems as this will give you a lug centric set-up over a hub centric one. I ask in case you have the wrong spacer for whatever reason.

[Hal]

Hang about.....

So you only fitted the spacers on the front then went for a drive and had vibration ?

Would it not be prudent to put all four on then have a drive ?

You have widened the track on the fronts but only by virtue of moving the alloy off its original centre line, so I’m wondering if it’s created a scenario whereby the drivetrain isn’t happy about it hence the vibration at high speed.

And for those that would say well is it not like fitting wider fronts ........
Don’t forget on the 8.5j fronts it’s not an issue because the wheel offset is changed as part of the alloy structure and the tyre width / alloy increase is split over both sides.

Interesting  point!

 

An easy cure in the old days for understeer that I often used was to widen the front track. But with the Haldex in our cars, I wonder what it would do? It could well be that the computer would recognise a change in track (I do not know this though..!) and try to do all sorts of things to compensate. I might one day take of my rears and put on the Rotors to test this out...

[Quattro]

Going back to the first post Quattro - you say you felt that 8mm gave you a good stance, but looking up spacer 1655573 on HR, it is in fact a 16mm spacer. No matter though, the only difference other than width between the two is that the 16mm will amplify more issues.

The main thing is: do you have an artificial axle hub on the spacer - ie, exactly the same as in T800's photo? If you per chance have an 8mm flat spacer, then yes, you will have all sorts of problems as this will give you a lug centric set-up over a hub centric one. I ask in case you have the wrong spacer for whatever reason.

The 16 on the part number refers to the overall track width so 8mm each side.
The spacers are hubcentric and also have the extension lip for the wheel to sit on.
I’ve bit the bullet and ordered some bolts with floating washers to see if it makes any difference.
A pic of my spacers below

[Hal]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the OEM wheels need bolts with the rings on them due to the actual PCD of the wheels. Can't recall where though. 

I have a feeling that this floating washer thing will get out of control!

 

I have never heard that oem wheels need floating washers. I doubt it very much as the PCD is exactly the same for hub and wheel, so not really necessary.

 

There are in fact two types of wheel bolt, well three in fact - fixed bolt, one with flotaing washer or collar and a 'PCD Variation' bolt. 

 

The floating washer is loose on the bolt and can take up any machining differences to ensure a good fit and it allows more tightening force without ruining the wheel seats - especially now when all wheel shops use impact guns. For this reason, they are used by the better manufacturers - Audi MB and BMW certainly. These are often referred to as wobble bolts or security bolts.

 

PCD variation bolts still have a floating washer or collar, but there is a good few milimetres sideways movement of the collar around the bolt. These are used where some far flung maufacturers have PCDs a couple of milimetres 'off the norm' - I remember the older Alfas had a 98mm PCD when everyone else, and all the aftermarket wheels, were 100mm PCD