[Fenz]

Hey mate, 

 

Sorry for posting on your thread, but, I couldn't see how to add the dynos from the tuning last week in our messages, so, here they are.

 

Solid repeatability in quite extreme conditions in the dyno room.

 

 

  

[Shaunee]

If Lichfield had the patch sorted to get past 1.5bar the EFR would of achieved more then 500ps. As my hybrid TTU510S achieved 510ps at 1.9bar.... maybe use some one else to tune the car?

Boost has never been a problem.

Hybrid achieved 520bhp before I pulled the plug.

[Shaunee]

Hey mate,

Sorry for posting on your thread, but, I couldn't see how to add the dynos from the tuning last week in our messages, so, here they are.

Solid repeatability in quite extreme conditions in the dyno room.

First post build dyno session.JPG

First post build dyno session1.JPG

Nice one Fenz!!!

I assume those figures are at the wheel?

[BenTTU]

Boost has never been a problem.

Hybrid achieved 520bhp before I pulled the plug.

 

520hp at 1.5bar? Possible I suppose with some meth 

[Shaunee]

520hp at 1.5bar? Possible I suppose with some meth

I can’t remember what the boost was tbh. I think it was running more than 1.5 in the mid range and tapered off at the top end. I tend to run more ignition than some tuners though.

The problem with the EFR core (as I understand) is it’s very easy to overspeed which they don’t like.

You need to monitor temps on cylinder 3 (iirc). Temps sky rocket, which we saw. Not where I wanted to be on 99oct fuel.

Figures I attained were on straight 99.

I’ll look to get the final graphs achieved and publish.

[BenTTU]

What do you mean you tend to run more ingtion then most tuners? That doesn't make sense it's a pyramid effect.  Fuel boost timing...Fuel boost timing... fuel boost timing to make power(simple terms) Sorry but you can not just keep banging timing in, the ecu will just keep pulling it back on its own, you can add 10 degrees and if the car don't like it the ecu will just pull it out....sounds very dangrous tbh matey. 

 

On EFR core I would imagine it be a pig to control, hence why we dropped the development on it. 

 

These cars need meth imo this is my next step.

 

Ben 

[Shaunee]

What do you mean you tend to run more ingtion then most tuners? That doesn't make sense it's a pyramid effect. Fuel boost timing...Fuel boost timing... fuel boost timing to make power(simple terms) Sorry but you can not just keep banging timing in, the ecu will just keep pulling it back on its own, you can add 10 degrees and if the car don't like it the ecu will just pull it out....sounds very dangrous tbh matey.

On EFR core I would imagine it be a pig to control, hence why we dropped the development on it.

These cars need meth imo this is my next step.

Ben

I said I run more ignition than ‘some’ not ‘most’.

I mean this in relation to boost. Some tuners prefer boost bias others don’t, others use a mixture of both obviously. I’ve ALWAYS favoured a pro ignition map if the setup responds well to this. I’ve found it makes the engine more responsive.

Of course you don’t just keep piling the ignition in regardless. You monitor what the ecu is doing/seeing on each and every small adjustment. You monitor EGT’s. You monitor how the engine is responding power and torque wise. You monitor knock. You monitor AFR’s. You monitor airflow. You monitor load. This is nothing new.

At the end of the day different tuners have slightly different approaches.

[BenTTU]

I've been doing it a long time now and had several file writers over the years.. There is only one way to tune and that is the correct way. You have a number of claimed tuners only one or 2 of them do it correctly. Any turbo car likes more timing but has it's limits. With regards to this type of engine it is fuel bios and needs high octane to get the best out of it. You should of put a octane booster in or installed meth if your tuner likes adding just timing. But if you run more boost to allow more fuel you dont need to just rely on being stuck with timing.Your statement about a pro igntion map just doesn't make sense, your not going to magically get big gains from that. Just sounds like your stuck at 1.5bar and only had the option left of timing...which is cool as we/my file writer is developing a patch to get past this and no it is not easy!

 

All my suggestion was try another tuner to see some good results, after all you have put some serious money in.

we as a company got stuck at 1.5bar and new my hybrid would benefit from more boost so I contacted MRC to see if we could get it on the dyno and see what they could achieve. I'm not bothered we build turbos and mapping is my side line. We are just late to the party and need to catch up with certain things.

 

Ben

[Fenz]

Yes Shaun at the wheels 

[Shaunee]

Yes Shaun at the wheels

[Shaunee]

I've been doing it a long time now and had several file writers over the years.. There is only one way to tune and that is the correct way. You have a number of claimed tuners only one or 2 of them do it correctly. Any turbo car likes more timing but has it's limits. With regards to this type of engine it is fuel bios and needs high octane to get the best out of it. You should of put a octane booster in or installed meth if your tuner likes adding just timing. But if you run more boost to allow more fuel you dont need to just rely on being stuck with timing.Your statement about a pro igntion map just doesn't make sense, your not going to magically get big gains from that. Just sounds like your stuck at 1.5bar and only had the option left of timing...which is cool as we/my file writer is developing a patch to get past this and no it is not easy!

All my suggestion was try another tuner to see some good results, after all you have put some serious money in.
we as a company got stuck at 1.5bar and new my hybrid would benefit from more boost so I contacted MRC to see if we could get it on the dyno and see what they could achieve. I'm not bothered we build turbos and mapping is my side line. We are just late to the party and need to catch up with certain things.

Ben

Like I said Ben, I’ve always preferred a strong ignition map..... regardless of who creates the calibration.

I was running a lot less boost at the top end for stage 2 then some other tunes out there..... yet mine seemed to produce some of the best results on the black stuff.... which is where it counts to me.

Litchfield is not stuck at 1.55bar... that was sorted in 2017.

I’ll be trying OB and race fuel with these turbos. Be rude not to.

[RS3Dell]

Like I said Ben, I’ve always preferred a strong ignition map..... regardless of who creates the calibration. I was running a lot less boost at the top end for stage 2 then some other tunes out there..... yet mine seemed to produce some of the best results on the black stuff.... which is where it counts to me. Litchfield is not stuck at 1.55bar... that was sorted in 2017.I’ll be trying OB and race fuel with these turbos. Be rude not to.

Thats not quite true about the best times out there as i witness you not being able to get a better time than Brian & Steve on the same day at the Pod a few year's back....11.8 if i recall !

Dell.

[BenTTU]

please explain what do you mean by a strong igntion map?? 

Regards to not running boost top end, if it is stock I get that because the power dies anyway..But if you are talking hybrid well.....

[Shaunee]

Thats not quite true about the best times out there as i witness you not being able to get a better time than Brian & Steve on the same day at the Pod a few year's back....11.8 if i recall !

Dell.

What is it with some people and their selective reading?!

I said “some” of the best times which is 100% factual.

I am still not aware of anyone who has achieved better times down Santa Pod, full road trim, road tyres, pump fuel on a Stage 2 8v.1

I achieved a 11.5 on one occasion and then repeated 11.6’s when I returned for a full on test and tune day. We all know how a fully prepped track doesn’t help cars like ours on road tyres.

Of course you are correct on the one occasion I ran with those MRC tuned cars. These things happen Dell..... that’s drag racing. That doesn’t take away the fact of what the car achieved in black and white.

All I ever do is my own thing, write up the detail, do the testing and share the results.

It is what it is.

[Shaunee]

please explain what do you mean by a strong igntion map??
Regards to not running boost top end, if it is stock I get that because the power dies anyway..But if you are talking hybrid well.....

Just a differing approach to ignition tuning then some, I know of a n other well known Audi mapper that takes a similar approach. Like I said.... different mappers use different strategies. It’s not white mans magic, just different approaches.

Like I previously alluded to, the EFR didn’t appear to like a lot of top end boost. The turbo was overspeeding and cylinder temps were getting high. We tried different approaches. The end result was the best we could achieve safely.... which on that stock manifold and hot side without fuel additives was very good imo. Unfortunately I wanted more.... hence why I’m where I am now.

[BenTTU]

Just a differing approach to ignition tuning then some, I know of a n other well known Audi mapper that takes a similar approach. Like I said.... different mappers use different strategies. It’s not white mans magic, just different approaches.

Like I previously alluded to, the EFR didn’t appear to like a lot of top end boost. The turbo was overspeeding and cylinder temps were getting high. We tried different approaches. The end result was the best we could achieve safely.... which on that stock manifold and hot side without fuel additives was very good imo. Unfortunately I wanted more.... hence why I’m where I am now.

With out trying to sound argumentative in any way as i am genuinely interested in this thread as i take my hat of to other companies that tackle big builds like our selves. 

 

But please explain your so called different approach? unless you use octane booster to squeeze that bit extra i can not see how any other tuner can do it different. 

Over speeding can be controlled, but on the flip side i can see why you had issues with the said turbo, but i wont get into that as its down to the builder to get it correct not for me to point out mistakes. Again a lesson i learnt the hard way. 

 

I see Dell claims your lying, get your slip out from santa pod to prove otherwise. 11.5 on a stage 2 tune kind of a world record on pump fuel? hopefully your build should see low 10s or even 9s? 

 

Ben

[JamesBaby]

Folks I really like this thread. Lots of good info and opinions. Some really far out tuning which is not bog standard.

But please can I ask we keep it polite. Some questions lately have been coming across a little argumentative in my opinion.

If we differ on opinions that’s fine, and asking for explanations on methodology is also fine, but as long we are not accusing in our tone or implying something underhand is happening without real cause or evidence.

2p.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RS3Dell]

Folks I really like this thread. Lots of good info and opinions. Some really far out tuning which is not bog standard. But please can I ask we keep it polite. Some questions lately have been coming across a little argumentative in my opinion. If we differ on opinions that’s fine, and asking for explanations on methodology is also fine, but as long we are not accusing in our tone or implying something underhand is happening without real cause or evidence. 2p. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

James.

You was not in the stands at Santa Pod after a certain individual done 2 runs & couldn't achieve time's he claims his done in the past,then went on the rant to his partner in a public domain about the validity of Brians & Steve's 8Vs claimed bhp,there tuner & about wasting there time adjusting the tyre pressures to better there times which may i say they did.!

Then f##ked off home in a strop before midday.

Not very sportsmanship one thinks.

Dell.

[Shaunee]

My results achieved are for all to see. They’re in this thread in black and white. Timing slips and all. I have the run logs as well.

Let’s stick to the black and white facts that what my car has achieved. Like it or lump it.... it happened.

If you think I’m full of it, fine.
If you think my car hasn’t achieved what I have said it has, fine.
If you don’t like me, fine.

If it’s any of the above why on earth are you reading this thread wasting your valuable time though?

This is one of the threads on this forum that has one of the largest viewership. I must have a lot of haters.

Some people need to relax a bit.... it’s only about tuning a car.

[Lawrence]

Was about to type this before I read the last sentence... it’s only a car innit