[Shaunee]

Please exapnd on this again? 

What is meant by the cores being equal and I presume the quality refers to the cooling ability?

Thanks.

 

I'm referring to the efficiency of the core (cooling, flow and pressure drop).

[Shaunee]

Shaunee,

 

When the rear ARB was fitted to my 8P it totally transformed it and it was a different car after putting it on made it handle so much better,

If I noticed it then it must have been good !

 

It's not about whether it makes a difference, it's about whether you actually need it....... hold on, I've shot myself in the foot here.

 

In all seriousness though, it does depend on what you want from the car and what you see as being important enough to want to do something about it. 

[Hal]

I'm referring to the efficiency of the core (cooling, flow and pressure drop).

Yes, hear what you say - but if all these combine to make the best ic, how can someone, an ordinary punter say, determine which manufacturer has all these qualities to be reckoned the best..? Has this been discussed anywhere? 

[Shaunee]

Based on the information available on all the FMIC's that I know that are available, objective information in relation to this is not available in the wild.

 

I would have loved to have done this in my project but the time, effort and costs involved to do this for a number of FMIC's would have been crazy. 

 

My approach / choice was based on reputation of companies other products and cost versus claimed performance.  The Forge FMIC worked out well and we saw substantial charge temp drops once fitted, which also enabled us to increase performance, which was repeatable. 

 

Is it THE BEST for the 8V.... I don't know.  Does it provide a measurable benefit over the OEM FMIC - yes. If money had been no object could I have ended up with a better performing FMIC setup (i.e. custom spec FMIC) - I suspect yes.

 

The problem is what does "better" actually mean in the real world, and in comparison how much is "better" going to cost.

[Woodstock25]

I'm loving this thread....  keep em coming.  From what I can gather, 450+ is probably stage 2 territory. 

 

I get the FMIC

 

What exhaust mods are required/needed/necessary? I don't want to loose the wolf in sheeps clothing appeal - and if I can minimise noise increase, that would be good, but i recognise that that this is also a compromise.

 

Noby has mentionned the tt450/500 much yet? Any thoiughts?

 

Cheers

 

Woody

[deepspacemillar]

Generally speaking, from what I've picked up;

Stage 1 is getting ~420hp with just the maps. It's mostly about mid-range torque boost rather than peak. The secondary decats add a bit extra to roughly 430hp.
Stage 2 is getting ~450hp or so with map and a hardware change. Hardware is either intercooler plus the secondary decats or induction/exhaust changes. I've seen figures quoted as high as 485hp quoted if you're prepared to do full induction changes and a full custom exhaust on top of the intercooler (and presumably use race fuel!). Basically, you can probably liberate another 10-20hp on top of the stage 2 with carefully chosen exhaust and induction changes.
Stage 3 requires the TTE500 or equivalent turbo. It will get you more or less 500hp on the nose by itself, and you can liberate another 50hp or so depending on the other induction, exhaust and intercooler mods you have mentioned on stage 2.
That seems to be the limit of 'standard' mods before you need to look at uprated high pressure fuel pumps, forged internals and so on

[Shaunee]

Generally speaking, from what I've picked up;

Stage 1 is getting ~420hp with just the maps. It's mostly about mid-range torque boost rather than peak. The secondary decats add a bit extra to roughly 430hp.
Stage 2 is getting ~450hp or so with map and a hardware change. Hardware is either intercooler plus the secondary decats or induction/exhaust changes. I've seen figures quoted as high as 485hp quoted if you're prepared to do full induction changes and a full custom exhaust on top of the intercooler (and presumably use race fuel!). Basically, you can probably liberate another 10-20hp on top of the stage 2 with carefully chosen exhaust and induction changes.
Stage 3 requires the TTE500 or equivalent turbo. It will get you more or less 500hp on the nose by itself, and you can liberate another 50hp or so depending on the other induction, exhaust and intercooler mods you have mentioned on stage 2.
That seems to be the limit of 'standard' mods before you need to look at uprated high pressure fuel pumps, forged internals and so on

 

Based on my testing I never saw any power increases due to secondary cat delete.  I also never saw any outright power increases due to the intercooler change on it's own.  Map changes were needed to sweat out the advantages of the FMIC change.

 

I'm still on the OEM downpipe.  Would changing that unleash further power.... don't know, but will be testing this soon.

 

I'm also unconvinced that inlet changes will provide any measurable increase at these kinds of level, regardless of what is being banded about.  Again, I'll be looking into this as part of my Stage 3 testing.

 

485bhp from Stage 2 is, imo, only going to be possible if you're using higher octane fuels.

 

550bhp from a TTE500 turbo on the 8V? With high octane fuels and really pushing it.... it maybe possible.  The problem with hybrids using the OEM exhaust housing is EGT's.  There is a limit to how much you can achieve.

 

On the 8V with a TTE500, FMIC, 100% decat and full induction mods, whilst using UK 99oct fuel..... you're looking at around 515bhp.

[Shaunee]

I'm loving this thread....  keep em coming.  From what I can gather, 450+ is probably stage 2 territory. 

 

I get the FMIC

 

What exhaust mods are required/needed/necessary? I don't want to loose the wolf in sheeps clothing appeal - and if I can minimise noise increase, that would be good, but i recognise that that this is also a compromise.

 

Noby has mentionned the tt450/500 much yet? Any thoiughts?

 

Cheers

 

Woody

 

As I said above, I never saw any power increases by using the secondary decats.  Noise increase where it's needed is great though.  No drone and they really do make the engine sound great on WOT.  For the cash it's a cheap mod.  Just don't expect power differences imo.

 

The TTE500 works extremely well on the 8V.  Produces a solid 500bhp and takes the car to the next level of performance. 

[terminator x]

My car went on the RR before and after decats, no difference. Sound is  though.

 

TX.

[Irfy]

I managed 403bhp with just a stage 1 map. Not had it measured after the secondary decat pipes but I'd imagine it would be minimal if anything at all.

High flow cats and downpipe along with intercooler would allow for better timing and sustained boost before the engine reduces it due to temps. But in terms of adding extra power again it would be minimal unless the mapping took into account the modifications.

If I get over 430bhp using stage 2 then I'd be happy.

[deepspacemillar]

Shaunee, my bad on the decats, I saw somewhere else that it could achieve 10-15hp, and looking on the Litchfield site they say the following.
http://www.litchfiel....co.uk/Audi/RS3

 

Similar to our massively popular GTR stage 1 modification, our RS3 stage 1 upgrade involves fitting Milltek stainless secondary decat pipes and remapping the car.

Expect a power increase from the standard 362bhp to 430Bhp and torque increases to 430lbft.

We are also able to just remap your car, retaining the standard exhaust system, however the power and torque figures obtained are reduced to 415BHp and 410lbft.

Maybe I've misunderstood.
Regardless, it certainly befits the extra performance 

[terminator x]

Decats + map should see you at 410-420 though (as you said above) just not decats alone? Even a map with no decats must raise the power?

 

TX.

[Shaunee]

Shaunee, my bad on the decats, I saw somewhere else that it could achieve 10-15hp, and looking on the Litchfield site they say the following.
http://www.litchfiel....co.uk/Audi/RS3

 

Maybe I've misunderstood.
Regardless, it certainly befits the extra performance 

 

No "my bad" taken bud.

 

Just banging on the decats on my car never gave any power difference.  I ran the car before and immediately afterwards. 

 

Other cars may differ, but this what I personally experienced. 

[Fivepotfan]

Lots of chat about power being in the lower 400bhp quartile (410, 420, etc) which is not a massive increase over a healthy stock engine running 385/390ps on 98 RON + fuel. It's the torque from these stage 1 & 2 maps that is the real news here. My custom map (its a stock motor with no other mods) is supposed to be equivalent of stage 1 at 429ps which is a nice increase (but not earth shattering) but the torque has gone up to 600nm which by comparison is very noticeable on the road.

[peazz]

As I said above, I never saw any power increases by using the secondary decats.  Noise increase where it's needed is great though.  No drone and they really do make the engine sound great on WOT.  For the cash it's a cheap mod.  Just don't expect power differences imo.

 

The TTE500 works extremely well on the 8V.  Produces a solid 500bhp and takes the car to the next level of performance. 

But is it worth the outlay when you are stage 2 already? 

[JayRS3]

But is it worth the outlay when you are stage 2 already?

i reckon the difference will be night and day. Another 50 horses doesn't sound a great deal more from stage 2 to 3 but with a bigger turbo it's going to be something noticeable which is why it's such a popular choice

[Shaunee]

But is it worth the outlay when you are stage 2 already? 

 

Diminishing returns for sure.... depends how much you want the car to be quicker.

[rocketer]

It also depends which exhaust you got. Probably oem standard + decats can give a little extra vs oem sport + decats minor and Milltek catback which has bigger pipes - better flow + decats can give little more over the two others?

[invisiblekid]

It's all about the Delta and area under the curve. I see so much about 'strong engines' making more than advertised figures and then someone with an optimistic dyno advertising massive figures and then claim a huge delta over the official Audi advertised figures.

 

The true gains are seen before and after runs.

 

My Stage 1 map made roughly 50bhp and 75ft/lbs peak, but at about 5k it made 90bhp and 100ft/lbs more. My butt dyno says it's pretty quick 

 

Bilstein B16s are next on the list with Stage 2 & Wagner IC shortly after.

[invisiblekid]

PS the decats are worth every penny. It's a very small layout, but the rasp is awesome.