[RS3Dell]

Fivepotfan is bang on the money there, my opinion on stepping back and reading the forum is Litchfield don't live up to the quoted figures.
I'd be putting my trust in more well known VAG tuners like your Apr's and your MRC.

👍😁

Dell.

[RS777]

Fivepotfan is bang on the money there, my opinion on stepping back and reading the forum is Litchfield don't live up to the quoted figures.
I'd be putting my trust in more well known VAG tuners like your Apr's and your MRC.

My worry with a lot of tuners is where they get their start point for the mapping. I was very impressed to hear APR start by altering the wiring loom and putting back all the additional sensors Audi had on when they did their R&D. It was very clever of Audi to remove the ones they didn’t need when the mapping was completed. I am sure this is probably done to make ever more complicated mapping harder to understand.
If Audi use a test set up with them on I can’t see how anyone can come up with such good maps without them because the extra data was there for a reason. It also gives confidence that APR are being professional and not rushing to get a map on the market.
Now I’m sure that isn’t the only way to map and there are some good ones out there, but think it’s a sensible starting point.

[JamesCam]

Having second thoughts now reading all of this. That extra power sounds very tempting.

 

Had a look and a complete ABT Tuning Pack will cost £17,000

 

To be fair the Litchfield tuning pack looks good, but can't tell if an extra 30hp is worth the price they're asking?

[Callum66]

Having second thoughts now reading all of this. That extra power sounds very tempting.
 
Had a look and a complete ABT Tuning Pack will cost £17,000
 
To be fair the Litchfield tuning pack looks good, but can't tell if an extra 30hp is worth the price they're asking?

I also had a look at ABT and their quad exit exhaust is £4250 which is too pricey for me to consider.

It won't just be 30hp that Litchfield are offering when you take drivability into consideration. The torque increase and the area under the graph will be far more easily felt than a 7.5% increase in hp would suggest. To be fair to them you might want to look at what they are offering in a little more detail.

[RS3Dell]

My worry with a lot of tuners is where they get their start point for the mapping. I was very impressed to hear APR start by altering the wiring loom and putting back all the additional sensors Audi had on when they did their R&D. It was very clever of Audi to remove the ones they didn’t need when the mapping was completed. I am sure this is probably done to make ever more complicated mapping harder to understand.
If Audi use a test set up with them on I can’t see how anyone can come up with such good maps without them because the extra data was there for a reason. It also gives confidence that APR are being professional and not rushing to get a map on the market.
Now I’m sure that isn’t the only way to map and there are some good ones out there, but think it’s a sensible starting point.

 

Stu.

 

It wasn't the case with the 8J TTRS & 8P RS3 which had APR maps & went bang ! Allegedly.

 

Dell.

[RS777]

Stu.
 
It wasn't the case with the 8J TTRS & 8P RS3 which had APR maps & went bang ! Allegedly.
 
Dell.

Yes I agree totally Dell. I phoned APR to ask about the new 8v maps and why they are taking so long. I was impressed when they said their R&D has moved on and they only develop maps on a test rig that has all the sensors put back on that Audi use. They are into triple figures for dunk runs and carry out multiple road/drag tests in between alterations. It sounded reasonable considering the info provided so far.
I wonder how Lichfield have done their maps because I know for fact there are tuning box providers currently selling maps for cars they have never owned or driven.
I’ve had a Revo mal on my 2.0Tdi Caddy van and APR stage 2+ on the Scirocco, both without a single glitch. Regal Autosports near me are doing RS3 mapping as well but I have no knowledge of this yet. They started on Vauxhall cars 25 years ago, but now 90% VAG. The owner Chris hat a 911 turbo but shortly getting the race edition Huracan.

[Fivepotfan]

Litchfield have been very good at marketing their products recently, they get a lot of exposure through working closely with various popular car mags and forums, there is even a large build thread on this forum where the OP is well known at Litcho. Their set up is impressive too, a recent brand new workshop facility installed, they have a Maha MSR500 dyno and an engine dyno too. A very professional set-up and may well be going in a direction similar to that of Pro-Drive?

 

However, GTR tuning and bespoke project work may well be all tickety boo, but things do not seem to be on the same page when it comes to mapping Audi's. Yes there's a great thread on this forum where the OP features project work being done by Litcho, it has excellent information and insight to RS3 tuning with lots of detailed data analysis - some of the best info I have probably seen on a forum anywhere.

But this service and the subsequent results is bespoke to the OP's car, it's not the same approach that average Joe Public gets when you turn up at Litcho for a re-map.

 

The picture below is taken form the Litchfield website which is advertising their latest tuning offerings for the FL car. It all looks super spangly until you get to the bit circled in red at the botttom. Its then that you realise that you are just getting a 'plug n play and drive away' map, if you want to know what power your car is producing then you will have to pay more. Seriously?

Take a look at the claims for power and torque increases, the claimed numbers do not match the 'before and after' dyno plot (plot shows stock at 438ps 375lbs/ft - Note: these numbers look weird for a stock 400ps car?), It reminds me of the same stuff you see for the mis-leading claims made by MTM, ABT and the various protagonists of tuning boxes. 

 

So have Litchfield now set themselves up to just process customer cars as quickly as possible, load up generic tuning maps and take your money?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

     

[RS3Dell]

Litchfield have been very good at marketing their products recently, they get a lot of exposure through working closely with various popular car mags and forums, there is even a large build thread on this forum where the OP is well known at Litcho. Their set up is impressive too, a recent brand new workshop facility installed, they have a Maha MSR500 dyno and an engine dyno too. A very professional set-up and may well be going in a direction similar to that of Pro-Drive?

 

However, GTR tuning and bespoke project work may well be all tickety boo, but things do not seem to be on the same page when it comes to mapping Audi's. Yes there's a great thread on this forum where the OP features project work being done by Litcho, it has excellent information and insight to RS3 tuning with lots of detailed data analysis - some of the best info I have probably seen on a forum anywhere.

But this service and the subsequent results is bespoke to the OP's car, it's not the same approach that average Joe Public gets when you turn up at Litcho for a re-map.

 

The picture below is taken form the Litchfield website which is advertising their latest tuning offerings for the FL car. It all looks super spangly until you get to the bit circled in red at the botttom. Its then that you realise that you are just getting a 'plug n play and drive away' map, if you want to know what power your car is producing then you will have to pay more. Seriously?

Take a look at the claims for power and torque increases, the claimed numbers do not match the 'before and after' dyno plot (plot shows stock at 438ps 375lbs/ft - Note: these numbers look weird for a stock 400ps car?), It reminds me of the same stuff you see for the mis-leading claims made by MTM, ABT and the various protagonists of tuning boxes. 

 

So have Litchfield now set themselves up to just process customer cars as quickly as possible, load up generic tuning maps and take your money?

 

IMG_3215.JPG

 

 

Converyor belt fast tuning drive in drive out just like Mc Ds 

 

Generic mapping on our RSs can be like buying a pair of trainers one brand fit you better than others for the same size.

 

Dell.

Edited by RS3Dell, 18 February 2018 - 12:24 PM.

[JamesCam]

I also had a look at ABT and their quad exit exhaust is £4250 which is too pricey for me to consider.

It won't just be 30hp that Litchfield are offering when you take drivability into consideration. The torque increase and the area under the graph will be far more easily felt than a 7.5% increase in hp would suggest. To be fair to them you might want to look at what they are offering in a little more detail.

 

Agreed with what you're saying mate.

 

I'm definitely not going with the first people I see, I'll have a look around. ABT would have been ideal, but it's too pricey.

[billymc92]

I’ll let you know how MRC get on tomorrow with my car

[Fivepotfan]

I’ll let you know how MRC get on tomorrow with my car

Well whatever result you end up with Billy, MRC will at least let you know what power it started with, and also what you drove away with!

If you speak to Doug nicely, he may even tweak the dsg clamping pressures for you too (OEM set up is ok, but it saves premature wear from slippage on the clutch plates over the longer term).

Edited by Fivepotfan, 18 February 2018 - 08:24 PM.

[T-800]

Converyor belt fast tuning drive in drive out just like Mc Ds

Generic mapping on our RSs can be like buying a pair of trainers one brand fit you better than others for the same size.

Dell.

Eh ?? MacD is supplying Maps now??

[RS3Dell]

Eh ?? MacD is supplying Maps now??

 

Took your time for the penny to drop mate 

 

Dell.

[JamesCam]

I’ll let you know how MRC get on tomorrow with my car

 

Any news on this?

 

Interested to hear about the changes made

[drgav2005]

Any news on this?

 

Interested to hear about the changes made

 

Some impressive numbers... 

 

https://www.audirs3o...-2-build/page-5

[RS777]

It's an eye opener to see they add maps and don't even insist in a rolling road check. How can you be sure that there isn't some fault which will cause a problem?

I had a map done by a tuner who remain nameless due to giving me a massive pay-out after my engine went bang due to being massively lean when it was supposed to be spot on. They did not do a dyno check and didn't take into account the larger drive ratios on my charger, causing it to run out of fuel by 4000 rpm (not good on a built 8000 rpm set up).

 

When Regal Autosports did my APR stage 2+ map they ran it on the rolling road, made some fine tuning adjustments and put it back on for a final check. This was included in the price and it ran perfect from then on. I will always look for a custom map from now on, or at least a branded map that can be tweaked for each individual car. If cars in standard form can be 20ps +/- to other standard cars, it shows the tuning really needs to be bespoke to match.

[Fivepotfan]

It's an eye opener to see they add maps and don't even insist in a rolling road check. How can you be sure that there isn't some fault which will cause a problem?

I had a map done by a tuner who remain nameless due to giving me a massive pay-out after my engine went bang due to being massively lean when it was supposed to be spot on. They did not do a dyno check and didn't take into account the larger drive ratios on my charger, causing it to run out of fuel by 4000 rpm (not good on a built 8000 rpm set up).

 

When Regal Autosports did my APR stage 2+ map they ran it on the rolling road, made some fine tuning adjustments and put it back on for a final check. This was included in the price and it ran perfect from then on. I will always look for a custom map from now on, or at least a branded map that can be tweaked for each individual car. If cars in standard form can be 20ps +/- to other standard cars, it shows the tuning really needs to be bespoke to match.

Yep exactly , but there are still people out there who turn up at a tuner and just let them upload a map without the car even seeing a dyno run or health check, they then get a print out of a 'generic' dyno result for their car and an invoice.

 

Classic example below - surely this car was either not checked or developed some running problems.The owner wanted a 'second opinion' on the recent stage 2 map installed by tuner XXX which turned out to be closer to stage 1 numbers. Clue: Tuner XXX is not APR, MRC or REVO but has been heavily promoted recently.

 

Edited by Fivepotfan, 21 February 2018 - 10:30 PM.

[Mltyson89]

I’m sending my TT into Iian for development of a stage 2+ map. I’m assuming they will use the dyno to achieve this so hopefully no issues will arise!

[Mltyson89]

Just downpipe and intake pipe required for hardware.

[RS777]

Just downpipe and intake pipe required for hardware.

So what stage would it be to require an intercooler and HPFP upgrade?