[SW43]

17kg saving in unsprung mass from mostly over the front of the axel will make a HUGE difference. How anyone can say otherwise is astounding.

Maybe go strap 17kg of lead in your engine bay and go see what happens, if you feel otherwise.

Whether or not it's the same set up is another issue and all I see are assumptions in the replies. Lets try just dealing in fact and if you don't know why bother posting?

peazz, it's not a silly question at all, was thinking the same thing myself.

Just want to get a few things clear here. Unsprung mass is not what's in the engine bay.

If you can feel 17kg of difference under the bonnet you've got the sort of sensitivity that would notice the difference between and empty and full fuel tank, carrying a quarter of a passenger, having some shopping in the boot, etc. If you can fair play, but I don't believe you. Of course the clock can, in minuscule amounts. If stripping weight is your thing, also fair play.

17kg is just over 1% of the car's total weight. If you think this will make a difference, I'm astounded.

I've spent most of the last 18 years trying to or winning national kart championships. Being above the minimum weight is critical. However, removing just over 1% of the kart's weight would lead to zero anticipated improvement, based on thousands of laps of testing. Even moving such a small amount of weight on the chassis would do nothing.

So what logic are you using to predict that 1.1% saved would make an obvious difference?

Consider that with no restrictions, one way to remove understeer would be to give it front downforce - the exact equivalent of putting more weight over the front.

You don't understand understeer, do you? Or certainly what's causing it.

Peazz, would love to see it done. But also think you'd be completely mental. And it would require so much engineering to make it work that it is a total no go.

[T-800]

Just want to get a few things clear here. Unsprung mass is not what's in the engine bay.

If you can feel 17kg of difference under the bonnet you've got the sort of sensitivity that would notice the difference between and empty and full fuel tank, carrying a quarter of a passenger, having some shopping in the boot, etc. If you can fair play, but I don't believe you. Of course the clock can, in minuscule amounts. If stripping weight is your thing, also fair play.

17kg is just over 1% of the car's total weight. If you think this will make a difference, I'm astounded.

 

I've spent most of the last 18 years trying to or winning national kart championships. Being above the minimum weight is critical. However, removing just over 1% of the kart's weight would lead to zero anticipated improvement, based on thousands of laps of testing. Even moving such a small amount of weight on the chassis would do nothing.

So what logic are you using to predict that 1.1% saved would make an obvious difference?

Consider that with no restrictions, one way to remove understeer would be to give it front downforce - the exact equivalent of putting more weight over the front.

You don't understand understeer, do you? Or certainly what's causing it.

Peazz, would love to see it done. But also think you'd be completely mental. And it would require so much engineering to make it work that it is a total no go.

 

 

 

Apparently we are wrong to make assumptions or indeed post about things we don't know/have hard evidence of...................

Edited by T-800, 13 February 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[Roy]

Peazz

 

If you were "thinking out loud" when you said that ?

[peazz]

All I was doing was brainstorming and it turned in to a crazy fest.

Lets face it. When running stock they are already nose heavy, but tune that puppy and you feel even more so, just trying to brainstorm to get rid of some of the weight over the front axe but every thought seems like a dead end.

[SW43]

There's no doubting that less weight is 'better' but the biggest benefit is in Audi's PR because people will believe it's a big deal when in reality it is just natural evolution in a way that will be hard to feel. Don't think anyone should worry because they've got the lardy version. Especially if they've got the panoramic roof, which would be like sitting in the liposuction clinic eating a cheese burger.

[Hal]

... but every thought seems like a dead end.

No, get your order in for a facelift. It is the only viable option - if front end weight is your concern. 

[peazz]

lol everyone is so passive aggressive and diggy! jeez...

I wont be ordering an FL and I will shed weight over the front axel, wether you guys want to chime in constructively thats down to you.

Only options I see right now:

1. Carbon Ceramic brakes
2. Possible front wing carbon replacement (its galvanized steel)

Bonnet is already Ally, so its not going to happen there.

Edited by peazz, 14 February 2017 - 10:45 AM.

[deepspacemillar]

Lighter unsprung weight will help, so even lighter alloys, calipers, discs. How much do the carbon ceramics save?
In the engine bay you could remove the A/C unit, if you're really keen, possibly look at lighter radiators or intercoolers.
You could help make the front end pointer and a bit less blunt with parallel toe, a wavetrac front diff and some more aggressive suspension (ride height, camber).
I'm not sure much else is all that feasible

[terminator x]

Serious question, if you want lighter why not just sell up and buy something lighter?

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[Tippytoes]

Adding weight (mass) to front of car is not the same as increasing downforce at front of car. Adding front mass will of course increase vertical load but it will also increase forward inertia and it is the forward inertia which will contribute to understeer. So any increase in front load will in part, or whole, be counteracted by the increase in forward inertia, therefore, undeersteer may not be reduced or corrected. And as an aside, increased mass will require more energy to start and maintain motion as well as to stop the motion.

 

Front downforce will add a vertical force without adding any mass (weight) and without increasing forward inertia. The downforce is transmitted to front wheels and ceteris paribus (look that up if you have to) will increase front grip which will assist in overcoming any understeer and not contribute to it. This is why in F1 reduced mass and aeorodynamics (controlled predictable downforce) is god, the universe and everything. As you know F1 cars can aerodyunamically produce more downforce than the equivalent mass of the car and can thus drive upside down on the ceiling, or as is usually demonstrated, the top underside of a tunnel.

[terminator x]

Mine hasn't understeered once though in 21k miles. Myth or perhaps I'm too soft a driver!

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

[T-800]

Mine hasn't understeered once though in 21k miles. Myth or perhaps I'm too soft a driver!

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

Maybe its a remap side effect........

[deepspacemillar]

It's easy enough to replicate on hard corners on the OEM tyres, but I have to say I'd struggle to elicit it on the Michelins.

[SW43]

Adding weight (mass) to front of car is not the same as increasing downforce at front of car. Adding front mass will of course increase vertical load but it will also increase forward inertia and it is the forward inertia which will contribute to understeer. So any increase in front load will in part, or whole, be counteracted by the increase in forward inertia, therefore, undeersteer may not be reduced or corrected. And as an aside, increased mass will require more energy to start and maintain motion as well as to stop the motion.

Front downforce will add a vertical force without adding any mass (weight) and without increasing forward inertia. The downforce is transmitted to front wheels and ceteris paribus (look that up if you have to) will increase front grip which will assist in overcoming any understeer and not contribute to it. This is why in F1 reduced mass and aeorodynamics (controlled predictable downforce) is god, the universe and everything. As you know F1 cars can aerodyunamically produce more downforce than the equivalent mass of the car and can thus drive upside down on the ceiling, or as is usually demonstrated, the top underside of a tunnel.

Yep, points taken. However, my point is that 17kg out of a total of 1500kg sitting in the engine bay is neither here nor there when it comes to handling characteristics. This car is nose happy entirely because of how the power is distributed - as many 4wd cars are. Nothing to do with weight distribution.

[T-800]

Yep, points taken. However, my point is that 17kg out of a total of 1500kg sitting in the engine bay is neither here nor there when it comes to handling characteristics. This car is nose happy entirely because of how the power is distributed - as many 4wd cars are. Nothing to do with weight distribution.

I've got a 25kg tub of our Urea Resin
I'm gonna strap it to the bonnet tomorrow to see what all the fuss is about.......

[SW43]

Haha

[T-800]

Or if I shove it in the boot will it take the cars mind off its Lardy front ?

[T-800]

After driving mine home from the daily grind that I call work never once do I notice any front end lardy issues.....

It does make me wonder how some people are treating their cars if they find them nose heavy on public roads......

[terminator x]

I used to own a DC2 Integra the Holy Grail of FWD cars. It understeered like a b*tch ... in the rain on very small roundabouts. Read in to that what you will.

 

TX.

[Benno]

I added 17kg of mass(der bation) over the front wheels of my go kart and I won everything. It was the 1% = 1337!