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Runner flap delete


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#1
RS777

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On the 2.0 TFSI cars I saw a lot of owners removed the flaps in the runners coming from the intake manifold and reportedly getting 10hp.
Do RS3 engines have the same set up and if yes is this a worthwhile or even possible upgrade?

#2
JayRS3

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On the 2.0 TFSI cars I saw a lot of owners removed the flaps in the runners coming from the intake manifold and reportedly getting 10hp.
Do RS3 engines have the same set up and if yes is this a worthwhile or even possible upgrade?


Don’t do it, been there done that. Car runs rough in the winter especially during the cold start cycle even when it’s mapped in. Ended up putting them back in and map tweaked again. Not worth the faff.

#3
RS777

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Don’t do it, been there done that. Car runs rough in the winter especially during the cold start cycle even when it’s mapped in. Ended up putting them back in and map tweaked again. Not worth the faff.

Thanks for the advice Jay.



#4
AusTTRS

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Is anyone worried about the bolts working loose?

 

https://forums.quatt...sgs/44235.phtml

 

Since 'winter' where I live in Australia lasts a few short weeks & doesn't get below 10 deg C (middle of the night), my cold start is maybe 10 seconds long most of the time. I'm not sure it would bother me too much; a lot let less than a minor rebuild of the engine would in any case.



#5
flybynite

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Don’t do it, been there done that. Car runs rough in the winter especially during the cold start cycle even when it’s mapped in. Ended up putting them back in and map tweaked again. Not worth the faff.

 

Out of interest was the problem with the normal cold start or the 'Cat warming start'? One of the reasons I would consider getting the car mapped is to get rid of the cat warming. Revving its b0llox off for 90 seconds every cold morning just to heat up the cats annoys the neighbours and is not the best thing to do with any engine, mechanical sympathy makes me wince when it does it.

 

Can't see it serves any other purpose so happy for it to be mapped out.



#6
0120raptor

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Any decent tuner can map out the cold start high revs. 


Catalunya Red ,Heated rear window,Power steering,Wireless (with FM),Seat belts,Servo assisted brakes.Pneumatic tyres. Disc brakes.


#7
JayRS3

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Out of interest was the problem with the normal cold start or the 'Cat warming start'? One of the reasons I would consider getting the car mapped is to get rid of the cat warming. Revving its b0llox off for 90 seconds every cold morning just to heat up the cats annoys the neighbours and is not the best thing to do with any engine, mechanical sympathy makes me wince when it does it.

Can't see it serves any other purpose so happy for it to be mapped out.


I’m referring to the removing the runner flaps. Don’t do it.
In terms of the cold start cycle; I have had mine recently mapped out and it’s great. No cat/ quieter on a cold start.

#8
RS3Dell

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As the 8P are much quieter on start up than the later model's I never found it an issue tbh.

Since Ben has remapped mine it's now been deleted without any I'll effects to running from cold,mine still has the swell flaps but all the retaining screw's re-Loctied for peace of mind.

The main reason behind the fast warm up of the cats is the emissions are monitored from cold Inc on start up.

Dell.

Edited by RS3Dell, 07 November 2021 - 02:09 PM.


#9
AusTTRS

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Checked &/or with added Loctite sounds like the way to go.

 

Did you do yours Dell or was it done at a shop? Wondering how hard it is to get a tool in there and, more importantly, not drop a retaining bolt into a crevice from which I can't retrieve it...



#10
RS3Dell

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Checked &/or with added Loctite sounds like the way to go.
 
Did you do yours Dell or was it done at a shop? Wondering how hard it is to get a tool in there and, more importantly, not drop a retaining bolt into a crevice from which I can't retrieve it...


I did mine myself.. remove the manifold pop out the core plugs above the flap screws,remove the torx screw,Loctie replace then refit the core plug.

I replaced the injectors with the latest type while I was at it.

Dell.

#11
AusTTRS

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I did mine myself.. remove the manifold pop out the core plugs above the flap screws,remove the torx screw,Loctie replace then refit the core plug.

I replaced the injectors with the latest type while I was at it.

Dell.

 

Hi Dell, I have a couple of questions if you will indulge me.

 

1) It sounds like you reused the core plugs, is that correct? (034 sell a RFD kit for the RS4 & their instructions say to reuse them).

 

2) Did you remove the runner section of the manifold from the car to do this, or just the front section?

 

3) If the answer to #2 is "all of it", will a car that's not been started for many weeks have lost fuel pressure, or will I still get fuel at ~1900psi shot into my eyeball when I crack open the HP fuel line?

 

Thanks in advance for your info.

 

Leon 



#12
RS3Dell

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Hi Dell, I have a couple of questions if you will indulge me.
 
1) It sounds like you reused the core plugs, is that correct? (034 sell a RFD kit for the RS4 & their instructions say to reuse them).
 
2) Did you remove the runner section of the manifold from the car to do this, or just the front section?
 
3) If the answer to #2 is "all of it", will a car that's not been started for many weeks have lost fuel pressure, or will I still get fuel at ~1900psi shot into my eyeball when I crack open the HP fuel line?
 
Thanks in advance for your info.
 
Leon 


Hi Leon.

I did reuse the original core plugs by carefully knocking then out/refitting them.

You do need to remove both the the upper/lower manifold to remove the core plugs & access the flap screws as it can't be done in the car.

I just cracked open the high pressure fuel line on the hpfp very slowly while covering it with a piece of rag...it's not as a big deal as you may think tbh.

Hope this is of help mate 👍

Dell.

#13
AusTTRS

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That's awesome, thanks mate. I have a better idea what I'm in for now.

 

If I'm going to have all that out I will test fit the phenolic spacer to see how I need to bend the high pressure fuel line to allow for the extra thickness. Then I'll chicken out & put everything back the way I found it (after addressing the runner flap screws).



#14
RS3Dell

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That's awesome, thanks mate. I have a better idea what I'm in for now.
 
If I'm going to have all that out I will test fit the phenolic spacer to see how I need to bend the high pressure fuel line to allow for the extra thickness. Then I'll chicken out & put everything back the way I found it (after addressing the runner flap screws).


Leon.

Bending the fuel line may not be your biggest problem but the loss of the injector rail engagement onto the injectors could be due to the thickness of the phenolic spacer.

Recently I've had Aquamist WMI installed & remapped to suit by Ben @ TTU to lower the combustion chamber/turbo temperatures.Covered 120 track miles at Bedford autodrome 2 weeks ago without any issues baring running out of water methanol by lunchtime then run on the waste gate map for the remainder of the day which didn't dampen the day by any means.

I'll be finding out next Saturday once it's rollered up to see the difference between this new set up & the previous one.

Dell.

#15
AusTTRS

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Hi Dell,

 

Well that pretty much rules out the spacer then. I didn't realise the injector rail was attached to the bottom intake manifold. I can't see how the injectors will go back in correctly with 7-8mm of spacer installed (including extra gasket).

 

So that raises another question. What are the chances of damaging an injector o-ring or whatnot when removing/replacing the injectors?

 

I wasn't planning on buying new injectors, but is it normal to install a new seal kit when doing this?

 

Leon



#16
RS3Dell

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Hi Dell,
 
Well that pretty much rules out the spacer then. I didn't realise the injector rail was attached to the bottom intake manifold. I can't see how the injectors will go back in correctly with 7-8mm of spacer installed (including extra gasket).
 
So that raises another question. What are the chances of damaging an injector o-ring or whatnot when removing/replacing the injectors?
 
I wasn't planning on buying new injectors, but is it normal to install a new seal kit when doing this?
 
Leon


Leon.

Yes the injector rail is mounted on the bottom of the lower manifold.

You do need to remove the injectors to replace the manifold gasket,mine pulled out quite easily.
A service kit is required for the plastic seal on the bottom,top O ring & the compression element which holds the injectors in should be renewed,I didn't need the plastic seal or the O ring just the compression element as they come with the superseded injectors.

Btw there is an install tool for fitting the plastic seal onto the injector, check out YouTube as there's work around ways of doing it or have your injectors serviced & save yourself the trouble.

Dell.

#17
AusTTRS

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I thought I'd update this thread with my experience on the runner flap delete from a few months ago.

 

TLDR: as others have said - don’t remove the runner flaps.

 

I started off removing the upper intake to check the flap retaining bolts were tight & was going to install WMI port injection to supplement the single pre throttle nozzle the car has been running for >50K kms. The good news is the intake valves were in good shape.

intake_valves_wmi.jpg

 

But then I dropped my T30 tool into a spot I couldn’t reach without pulling the rear intake manifold, including the high pressure fuel rail. Bummer, but I had planned to install the WMI nozzles into the individual runners so off it came with a little cursing.

 

So I was thinking about the quote below from an owner in USA that had (at least) one of the flap bolts work loose & he removed them all (I linked it a few posts above).

 

Two days of driving and a few restart cycles later I am happy to report that the car runs great, throttle feels a touch more responsive and motor seems to rev more freely.

What are the downsides you ask? Audi must have a good reason for these flaps. Turns out they do. On cold starts when the RPM is higher for the first 30 or so seconds I get a little stumble and ECU records some misfires but no CEL is triggered. Once the RPM drops to its steady state idle, these misfires die down to zero - I was logging using VCDS and that's the only way I could tell this was even happening.

After that car runs as usual. Second downside (some may actually like this) is that I can now hear a very muted intake whoosh, similar to what one hears with those cone filters on a stick but much lower volume”.

 

Because I was so far in I decided to delete them along with the dividing plates, put in new injector seals & put it all back.

 

Contrary to what our American friend said, these were the downsides I experienced afterwards.

 

·         Cold start was louder & engine revs hunted (trying to find correct AFR?)

·         During cold start, the car ran super rich & spewed a heap of unburnt fuel smoke out the exhaust. No fuel smoke once cold start cycle finished (~10 - 15 sec in my case).

·         Highway driving on cruise control (flat road), the car would occasionally jerk/hesitate fractionally.

·         The tone of the (Milltek) exhaust changed to more of a drone when on light throttle/highway cruising.

·         Light throttle changes no longer resulted in smooth driving.

·         I didn’t find any noticeable performance gain.

·         My wife hated it.

 

Granted, a retune with the flaps removed could probably fix most some of these issues, but what is the point when there was nothing to be gained?

 

Intake back out, re-installed the dividing plates & runner flaps with loctite on the bolts.

 

During this process I realised it would be difficult to fit my WMI nozzle holders into the space available on the individual intake runners, & maintaining nozzles & tubes buried down there wasn’t going to be easy. So I did the direct port WMI installation on the top plenum as so many others have done & it works well with easy access to check/clean nozzle filters when required.

wmi.jpg



#18
RS777

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During this process I realised it would be difficult to fit my WMI nozzle holders into the space available on the individual intake runners, & maintaining nozzles & tubes buried down there wasn’t going to be easy. So I did the direct port WMI installation on the top plenum as so many others have done & it works well with easy access to check/clean nozzle filters when required.

attachicon.gif wmi.jpg

 

Great post for the flaps delete and reinstalling them. 

 

What WMI are you running?





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