[MarkMac-RS3]

Boys.

Has been said in posting No 13 🤔

Dell.

I only scan some topics, got limited space in my brain these days. Don’t want to lose the stuff I need to get by day from day, like breathing autonomously and walking etc.

[RS3Dell]

I only scan some topics, got limited space in my brain these days. Don’t want to lose the stuff I need to get by day from day, like breathing autonomously and walking etc.

 

Mark.

 

 

Dell.

[AusTTRS]

aromatic.

 

The inlet manifold also suffers from heat sink so depending where your measuring the air temp say in the manifold the IC isn't at fault.

 

I know when Doug at MRC does his mapping he makes sure the air temp in the manifold & air from the IC are the same temp.

 

Dell.

 

Hey Dell, Do you mean MRC ignore the temp as reported in the plenum?

 

Cheers, Leon

[RS3Dell]

Hey Dell, Do you mean MRC ignore the temp as reported in the plenum?

 

Cheers, Leon

 

Leon.

 

No mate Doug at MRC during mapping makes sure the plenum air temp & intake air temp after the IC are the same.

 

I'm guessing it so the you not mapping against the plenum heat sink air temp instead off the actual air intake temp from the IC.

 

Dell.

[MarkMac-RS3]

Mark.



Dell.

😂

[AusTTRS]

No mate Doug at MRC during mapping makes sure the plenum air temp & intake air temp after the IC are the same.

 

I'm guessing it so the you not mapping against the plenum heat sink air temp instead off the actual air intake temp from the IC.

Any idea how he would go about that ^

 

I'm pretty sure the actual air temp going into the engine isn't as high as the ECU thinks. The small amount of time the air spends passing thru the plenum wouldn't allow it to heat up very much. The temperature of air leaving the intercooler would be much closer to the real temperature going into the engine (not what the sensors say).

 

I've been toying with the idea of taking IC exit air temp & modifying the sensor/s output to be within a degree or 2 of it.

[RS3Dell]

Any idea how he would go about that ^
 
I'm pretty sure the actual air temp going into the engine isn't as high as the ECU thinks. The small amount of time the air spends passing thru the plenum wouldn't allow it to heat up very much. The temperature of air leaving the intercooler would be much closer to the real temperature going into the engine (not what the sensors say).
 
I've been toying with the idea of taking IC exit air temp & modifying the sensor/s output to be within a degree or 2 of it.

Aus.

I am talking about when the car is on the roller there's a lot of plenum chamber heat sink during stop/start mapping.

On the move as you say maybe not so much but air will pick up temp from the surroundings like the plenum chamber & I beleave there can be a differential in air temp & that's why they have 2 air temp sensors so the ECU can make the required corrections.

Maybe you have a faulty sensor telling you a lie & the air temp isn't as high as you think mate.🤔

The ECU can only make adjustments based on the info sent back from the engine or any other sensor.

Dell.

[AusTTRS]

Maybe you have a faulty sensor telling you a lie & the air temp isn't as high as you think mate.

 

That has crossed my mind. In the first instance I'm going to swap the sensors to see if anything changes. Secondly I can buy a new one (or 2).

 

I really think that it is the radiated heat from the plenum raising the indicated temperature as it takes about 15-20 minutes of (off boost) cruising before they show hot.

[AusTTRS]

Apologies to OP for taking over his thread, but I think this is all relevant information.

 

On the weekend I changed from an EVO1 (bought when that was the only option from Wagner) to their EVO3. It works great. No idea if better than any other brand as I can only compare with what I had, but it does what it should.

 

The interesting thing that I've found, which almost proves my previous observations, is under light throttle the IAT (as seen by ECU) settles at about 15 Deg C above ambient. This is exactly the same as as the EVO1, & probably the same as the OEM intercooler. This is the radiant heat from the plenum heating the sensors.

 

As soon as I crack open the throttle, the temps drop quickly as the colder air flows past the sensors. To a certain extent the faster you go, the cooler it gets, but never better than ~5 deg C above ambient (usually ~10 deg). It will be good to see what happens next track day.

 

The IAT's are fluctuating far more than they ever did with the EVO1, showing the EVO3's ability to cool the air far more effectively. This would be same for any other large intercooler I'd imagine. So OP, I don't think there's too much wrong with the EVO3, unless yours is somehow faulty, but that would be unlikely.

 

My next step is to isolate the plenum from the head with a phenolic spacer (not as easy as it sounds due to HPFP line), or electrically alter the sensor temperature a little (last resort).

 

I chuckle when I hear people from UK/Europe complain about the 25 deg C summer days sapping power

[RS3Dell]

AusTTRS

The Evo 1 is just a straight replacement for the OEM one which struggles with cooling at the best of times.

The EVO2/3 or Forge ICs are the best way to go even on standard RS mate.

Dell.

[AusTTRS]

AusTTRS

The Evo 1 is just a straight replacement for the OEM one which struggles with cooling at the best of times.

The EVO2/3 or Forge ICs are the best way to go even on standard RS mate.

Dell.

 

Yes, I agree. Original owner installed the EVO1 as it was the only option back then, afaik. Looks to be same frontal area as OEM but deeper. Probably gave him an insignificant benefit over OEM, lol.

 

As far as OP's question is concerned, I don't think the EVO3 is purely to blame as it seems to work just fine. His stage 3 car will be pushing the intercooler pretty hard though.

[bazf]

Phenolic spacers are great, certainly stop the heat .

 

I found a chap on ebay selling them for the 2.5 but he had no idea if they fitted or not.

 

AusTTRS, instead of altering the sensor outputs i think relocating the sensors would work by getting them away from the oven.  I'm not sure if there would be any implications from moving them or if the sensors are in those particular spots for a reason or just to make use of space.

[RS3Dell]

I wouldn't relocate the position or alter the sensor output as you will just be fooling the ecu values & it will react accordingly.

 

Del.

[RS3Dell]

Don't know if this is of any help ? 

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAKnBnIi-Ig

 

Dell.

Edited by RS3Dell, 17 June 2018 - 09:21 AM.

[bazf]

I wouldn't relocate the position or alter the sensor output as you will just be fooling the ecu values & it will react accordingly.

 

Del.

 

Fooling? 

 

The heat transfer from the head turns the inlet manifold and inlet elbow into ovens.   The sensors are effected by this.  The sensors do not ever cool down properly once they are 'hot'.    As your Subaru guy explains the wall temps don't effect the air temp a great deal but what he DOES NOT mention is Temperature sensor location, which IS effected by the wall temperature of our inlets and elbows.

[bazf]

Don't know if this is of any help ? 

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAKnBnIi-Ig

 

Dell.

 

 

Not really,  I'm not wanting to know about keeping Subaru inlet temps down.  I am wanting to keep the radiated heat from the head on RS3's away from Temperature sensors which I think leads to artificially high temps.

[RS3Dell]

Not really,  I'm not wanting to know about keeping Subaru inlet temps down.  I am wanting to keep the radiated heat from the head on RS3's away from Temperature sensors which I think leads to artificially high temps.

bazf

The bottom line whether you like it or not is the sensor is saying what the heat is in that location & thats is what the ecu needs to know.

The proper & only solution is to isolate the manifold from the head to stop heat transfer not move the sensor.

Welcome to world of turbos mate.

Dell.

[bazf]

No, the bottom line is it's another poorly thought out manifold from VW/Audi. 

 

The ECU needs to know the AIR Temperature not the Temperature of the metal work that the sensor is bolted to which clearly has an impact on the reading.

 

No need to welcome me matey been doing it a while.

[RS3Dell]

bazf.

All manufacturers who fit there sensor in the manifold like this will suffer the same so it an't just a vag thing.

Why don't you design & make a better manifold ?

Dell.

[JamesBaby]

Surely the sensor will be calibrated so that when its at a physical particular temperature it knows what that equates to in air temp?