[D19NL B]

I was going to post the vid of the tuning box being fitted but then discovered that soon after the car had it removed and an exhaust and stage 2 tune added. Dyno graph produced 443bhp and 471lbs/ft. Maybe not all the ponies were in good health for the RS3 showdown.......... or perhaps the tune on the RS3 was pretty good (Is it the latest APR offering?)

Not sure what's happened to his car but to produce that even on a rubbish Dyno it should have still been quicker... Need more info on this Apr tune, need one at the drag strip!

[Shaunee]

His car has never been quick on these showdowns. I would suggest something is right.

[Shaunee]

Isn't right.

[Fivepotfan]

Not sure what's happened to his car but to produce that even on a rubbish Dyno it should have still been quicker... Need more info on this Apr tune, need one at the drag strip!

The APR stage 2+ tune certainly looks the biz (assuming thats what it is?), if the numbers are real then maybe Shaunee's 1/4 mile crown could get beat? Come on Irfy, get it down the Pod and chalk up some good times!

[deepspacemillar]

I looked up both dyno and the Apr mid range and low end annihilates the A45 map.
The A45 may very well make 443hp for a small moment at the top of its rev range, but the Apr map holds that max horsepower from nearly 4500rpm to redline at 7k or so. The A45 reaches peak at about 6k but hits limiter about 6200
The power delivery is very different

[RS3Dell]

I looked up both dyno and the Apr mid range and low end annihilates the A45 map.
The A45 may very well make 443hp for a small moment at the top of its rev range, but the Apr map holds that max horsepower from nearly 4500rpm to redline at 7k or so. The A45 reaches peak at about 6k but hits limiter about 6200
The power delivery is very different

You can't make up for the bottom end power or torque the extra cylinder & capacity the RS engine has 😊
To get more BHP out of an engine you either increase the top end RPMs & suffice bottom end power and torque on a normal aspirated engine or in the case of force fed engines a bigger turbo & lose at the bottom end also ☹
I know of a TTE500 car which losers 60ps in the bottom end compared with a remapped standard one but has killer top end after 5k ! 😈

[deepspacemillar]

I'll elaborate on the above, as why not.
I found a dyno of rebellions Stage 2 map on what I think is a pre-FL A45 - which I think is running a modified turbo to achieve it.
Anyway - it's not exactly the same as Archies car in the video, but I imagine the torque delivery and curves are going to be very similar as the FL A45 got it's power increase mostly from turbo and timing changes. Here's the chart;
 

 

432 hp, 610 NM/450 lb-ft. Slightly down from Archie's, but will give us an idea.

Here's the APR map used on the RS3 (stage 2+ as far as I know);

Now, obviously this isn't an actual dyno, it's editorialised a little, but we'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
It's making 443hp and 670 NM/494 ft-lb.

Now, I'm going to scale and overlay the HP curve on the APR chart.


Compare the blue line to solid red.
My scaling is not perfect (I'm accounting for PS to HP and so on), but you can see a significant gap that is all the way till 500rpm or so. The A45 isn't actually as bad as I made out, but you see it dies at 6500rpm, the RS3 is still going for another 500rpm (and even further with APR maps I believe).

What's more enlightening is the torque curve...


Comparing blue to solid white, you can see the mid range on the RS3 is a world apart. High end is getting very close.

I'm no expert at this, but based on my faffing about above - the RS3 was always going to win this.
He mentioned in the video it pulled away at the gearchanges, and that's when the revs drop into the area where the RS3 is dominating in torque.

The extra displacement does make a difference...

Edited by deepspacemillar, 02 August 2017 - 12:56 PM.

[Fivepotfan]

Nice comparison....... looks like the latest APR map (albeit not being an actual dyno print out) is producing some good numbers and may well be the new benchmark for stage 2 tunes. I wonder how much extra boost is being used, I know that many of the tuners have learnt to bypass the 1.5bar threshold so I guess that it depends on how far you can push the limits on the OEM hardware before something gives.

The stage 2 on my car also has good torque and output is actually very similar to the APR 2+ map - see copy of dyno graph below which was early this year before adding HPFP and some additional software tweaks. Torque peaks at around 3K rpm, its not as nice and flat as some of the Litchfield maps for example but doesn't drop away too quickly from the high point. Note: the two plots show the difference of adding an uprated IC to a stage 1 tune.

There is probably not a lot between any of the top tuners maps now for the 8V RS3, for those of us who are happy to mod our cars then the choice of who to use has just got better!

Edited by Fivepotfan, 02 August 2017 - 07:47 PM.

[T-800]

Nice comparison....... looks like the latest APR map (albeit not being an actual dyno print out) is producing some good numbers and may well be the new benchmark for stage 2 tunes. I wonder how much extra boost is being used, I know that many of the tuners have learnt to bypass the 1.5bar threshold so I guess that it depends on how far you can push the limits on the OEM hardware before something gives.

The stage 2 on my car also has good torque and output is actually very similar to the APR 2+ map - see copy of dyno graph below which was early this year before adding HPFP and some additional software tweaks. Torque peaks at around 3K rpm, its not as flat as some of the Litchfield maps but doesn't drop away too quickly from the high point.

There is probably not a lot between any of the top tuners maps now for the 8V RS3, for those of us who are happy to mod our cars then the choice of who to use has just got better!
IMG_3031.JPG

Looking good

[D19NL B]

Nice comparison....... looks like the latest APR map (albeit not being an actual dyno print out) is producing some good numbers and may well be the new benchmark for stage 2 tunes. I wonder how much extra boost is being used, I know that many of the tuners have learnt to bypass the 1.5bar threshold so I guess that it depends on how far you can push the limits on the OEM hardware before something gives.

The stage 2 on my car also has good torque and output is actually very similar to the APR 2+ map - see copy of dyno graph below which was early this year before adding HPFP and some additional software tweaks. Torque peaks at around 3K rpm, its not as flat as some of the Litchfield maps but doesn't drop away too quickly from the high point. Note: the two plots show the difference of adding an uprated IC to a stage 1 tune.

There is probably not a lot between any of the top tuners maps now for the 8V RS3, for those of us who are happy to mod our cars then the choice of who to use has just got better!
IMG_3031.JPG

Brian, are you hinting at a dyno day? Haha

[Fivepotfan]

Brian, are you hinting at a dyno day? Haha

Wasn't thinking of that but dyno days are always a bit of fun, even guys with standard cars like to turn up to see what power its running.

Some forum members actually tried to organise one last year to see the differences between maps and tuning boxes on the same dyno, same day, same conditions basis, but as it got closer to the date (you have to book the dyno in advance) people started to drop out for one reason or another.

I have always thought it would be good (and I think you probably would agree) to be able to get some examples of cars with various stages of tune by different tuners to have a go at some 1/4 mile runs at SP or Shakespeare or wherever on the same day to actually see how these cars and the mods stack up - I think it could throw up some surprises like how quick is the new APR 2+ tune for example.

A similar thing happens each year at GTI International but the sprint distance (Rockingham I think) was not the full 1/4 mile (Caney still liked it though)

Of course there are other comparisons such as vboxing 100-200 times etc but at least the 1/4 mile venues are within the confines of a motorsport event area and has other faciltites for food, drink and WC.

[RS3Dell]

Brian

 

Im up for a rolling road & 1/4mile fun ! as for the 1/4 ill get done by you 8v mob !  

Dell.

[Fivepotfan]

Brian

 

Im up for a rolling road & 1/4mile fun ! as for the 1/4 ill get done by you 8v mob !  

Dell.

That 768nm in your car is not so easy to transfer into forward motion on the tarmac is it Dell.

[RS3Dell]

That 768nm in your car is not so easy to transfer into forward motion on the tarmac is it Dell.

 

Yep there lies the rub mate  the 8v has a nicer/better torque curve  Audi do make a nice real world stonking engine 8P or 8v ! 

Dell.

Edited by RS3Dell, 02 August 2017 - 06:44 PM.

[RS3Dell]

That 768nm in your car is not so easy to transfer into forward motion on the tarmac is it Dell.

 

Brian

 

768Nm is lovely on the roll  !

Dell.

[D19NL B]

Yep there lies the rub mate the 8v has a nicer/better torque curve Audi do make a nice real world stonking engine 8P or 8v !
Dell.

Rolling that thing would trounce us completely ! 100-200 would be interesting

[RS3Dell]

Rolling that thing would trounce us completely ! 100-200 would be interesting

 

Not between friends  AMG45s,RS Focus's another story mate ! 

[Shaunee]

The bullshit stops when the flag drops.

Let's see these cars hit the strip. The Datsun Tuners Stage 2 crown of 11.55 is open to be beaten!

Come on guys!

Seriously though.....

Would be really good to see other tunes run down the strip. We all like a bit more comparisons.

[RS3Dell]

To be fair ill rather do a track day as it more involving than drag racing and after the 1st 5 seconds its pretty mundane & the queuing is very british 

[Shaunee]

I can't argue with that.