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APR Stage 2 and 2+ to be released very soon!

Started By Guest_AwesomeHassan_* , Apr 18 2017 09:42 AM

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#1
Guest_AwesomeHassan_*

Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:42 AM

Guests

APR recently sent over one of their calibration engineers to develop new tunes for the Volkswagen and Audi aftermarket. During this trip, an Awesome customer spoke to the APR Engineer about not providing support for stage 2 8V RS3's... he wanted to know why? - When the RS3 stage 1 calibration was done there were no downpipes or intercoolers available for those cars during that trip (Dec 2015) nearly a year ago. So only stage 1 was made at that time.

Since that point in time however, the hardware support for the RS3 has continued and progressed. The customer showed us the claims of a competitors bhp figures, to which the APR Engineer asked to have the same car on the same dyno with each tune to show what, if any gains were to be had. Comparing a competitors stage 2 tune to the APR stage 1 tune (with stage 2 hardware - Intercooler, downpipe, & air filter) This simple dyno test showed that the APR stage 1 tune did not make the same peak power or torque figures as the competitors specific stage 2 tune. At this point the APR Engineer thanked the customer for his time and effort to provide APR with a competitive benchmark, and then immediately went to work with Awesome to find an RS3 customer who would lend their car. After finding a customer within a short distance, the time was scheduled to create a stage 2 specific map and possibly more...

Things to be gleaned from the dyno chart and dyno pulls... the boost control of the APR tune is extremely well sorted. The closed loop control maintains the target following the actual without oscillating or deviating wildly. Fuel trims are within 2-3% the entire run, the HPFP control is limited by an airmass limit to prevent the rail pressure dropping from the target....which would result in a misfire after the injection window limit was exceeded. By logging the competitors tune with vag com, the boost pressure could be seen oscillating and achieving upwards of 3000mbar with instantaneous fuel trims in the +12 to 15% range. More on this point later.

The Stage 1 8V RS3 (unlike the MK1/TTRS) is limited by the HPFP until approximately 5500 rpm and then transitions into a combination of boost limit & intake air temp struggles. Above 5500 the turbo is flat out and as a result the factory intercooler can't reject the heat fast enough. Now, if we fit an intercooler to the RS3... now the intake air temperatures are within 2-3C of ambient temperatures...at all times! This is very impressive especially compared to a 40C delta that might have been seen with the stock intercooler. Combined with a downpipe and an airfilter, you have a good combination that works for most customers. APR put the second customer's car on the dyno to develop a stage 2 map (with permission of course). The APR Engineer came back to report that through significant intake air temp reductions (Intercooler) and a reduction in back pressure (downpipe) the car was able to achieve 2.25 to 3 degrees more ignition advance than it did previously. It was explained that the ignition timing is compensated based the intake air temperature, so as the intake air temperature increases, the ignition timing is retarded to prevent knock events. The opposite is true as well, when the intake air temperature decreases, the ignition is advanced as to be just below the knock threshold of the octane used. This particular map did not advance the timing enough when the intake air temps were reduced to 25C at redline. By adjusting this table alone the engine picked up 22awhp (not bhp) nearly across the board... but more so at redline (remember it somewhat correlates to the difference in intake air temperature the intercooler makes) Beyond the ignition adjustment, the car didn't have any more High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) left... so we could not add more boost below 5500rpm. As a result we have a stage 2 specific RS3 APR map. But wait! There's more.

The HPFP fuel limit we spoke about earlier happens to coincide with a "software" boost limit... that was present on previous generation RS3's and is still present in 8V RS3's. "The 2560mbar limit." What this refers to is the ECU's inability to hold a value larger than 1.56bar in a memory address within the ECU, therefore limiting it's ability to request a value greater than this. This limit is present in multiple locations within the ECU's boost control, load targeting, torque request arbitration, diagnostics for boost control, and pre control. Since APR developed the first "patch" or code change to address this issue on the previous generation 8V RS3, and they sent the same engineer who developed that previous patch on this particular trip. What luck right? You may be wondering what all this means... given the wonky fuel trims, the lack of boost control (almost like the PID wasn't tuned or working), and the boost achieving 3000mbar with a mere target of 2560mbar on the competitors tune... it's likely the solved none of these issues. Which means... They took a sophisticated closed loop control boost control and disabled it. They took your boost pressure diagnostics (overboost) and disabled them or numbed them until they didn't complain. They didn't bother correcting the VE calculations that determine the amount of fuel required to achieve target lambda. As a result they have no control over boost beyond 2560, and it shows in their dyno plot and boost profile.

Now... onto bigger and better things. The Stage 2 car was fitted with a HPFP and calibrated for the pump geometry changes (volume increased and piston displacement(area)) and then the APR engineer worked with Software Engineers back in America to correct the code to allow proper closed loop boost control, boost targeting, boost diagnostics, and VE calculations. Once these corrections were made the boost control feedforward and closed loop PID were tuned to achieve a safe boost below the limit of the 3bar factory map sensors. The result was a significant jump in torque +50ft-lbs and another 10+whp. The peak power occurs earlier in the power band than before due to the ability to run more boost up to 5500 rpm.

Cliff notes - Stage 1 still works great, Stage 2 created and beats the competition everywhere safely and responsibly, and Stage 2+ (HPFP) makes great gains over stage 2.

#2
JamesBaby

Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

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Hubba bubba !!! This sounds good.

Thanks for the detailed post Hassan !!

How soon is very soon?

#3
Guest_AwesomeHassan_*

Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:46 AM

Guests

Calibration has been completed James, just need to get the software finalised into production files. I will let you guys know soon as it is ready to be released.

Edited by AwesomeHassan, 18 April 2017 - 10:51 AM.

#4
Irfy

Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:03 AM

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Looking forward for this map and hpfp. Should transform the car from stage 1 with the upgraded hardware. Thank you for getting the maps developed

#5
sir_dave

Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:38 AM

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Just out of interest, was the development car for this, the OP in this thread: http://www.audirs3oc...hfield-stage-2/

?

#6
Guest_AwesomeHassan_*

Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:56 AM

Guests

Just out of interest, was the development car for this, the OP in this thread: http://www.audirs3oc...hfield-stage-2/

?

That was not the vehicle used for the latest calibration

#7
D19NL B

Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:56 PM

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That was not the vehicle used for the latest calibration

*cough* bull****

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I just remembered that i'm absent minded, wait, i mean i lost my mind i can't find it.

#8
Guest_AwesomeHassan_*

Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:01 PM

Guests

*cough* bull****

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Excuse me? Ask for your self? Or do you require further proof?

#9
D19NL B

Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:02 PM

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It's ok, get that stage 2 map sorted y0 look forward to seeing how it compares to others

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I just remembered that i'm absent minded, wait, i mean i lost my mind i can't find it.

#10
Irfy

Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:16 PM

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I can assure everyone here it wasn't my car that Awesome used

#11
nickyc

Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:20 PM

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Lets just see what happens, im sure everyone here will be interested.

#12
deepspacemillar

Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

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I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of this

#13
Betaone

Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:00 PM

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I can bring my experience REVO stage 1 and REVO stage 2 beta 98 octane

After proving Stage 2 with Intercooler forge and Miltk Cat Sports I returned to Stage 1.

Stage 2 tries to increase the torque even below the 4,500 rpm ... over 4,500 rpm with the same identical performance as stage 1.

I say try because as soon as you reach a peak of 65 kgm I think the dsg auto

Limits the performance (see serrated course). On the road 2 times pulling the third I found between 3.500 and 4.500 a dry power hole (as arrived at limiter).

In my opinion, stage 2 does not make much sense ...

My personal conclusion is that with the standard turbine you reach 400 hp using the maximum advance obtainable with a 100 octane gasoline.

It's just a stage 1 between 58 and 62 kgs of torque up to 5,000 rpm (values that the DSG seems to be able to run smoothly).

An increased intercooler is recommended to maintain these performance even during the hot season.

Actually there is also stage 2 beta for gasoline 102 octane (maybe with that you could get even 420 hp) but it seems to me that it's hard to find a good 100 octans, made up of a 102 octane. Also, it is likely that the final stage 2 Revo will reduce the torque between 2,000 and 4,500 rpm in order to align with the couple managed by the DSG .

#14
Zoeben

Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:16 AM

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It was my car that has been used for the development of these 2 new maps, all of the tech talk doesn't really do it for me, but driving it with the new stage 2+ is phenomenal, I thought the car was good already, but now it really is that stupid grin thing, big thanks to Eric from APR America and everyone at Awesome,

#15
JamesBaby

Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:15 AM

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I can bring my experience REVO stage 1 and REVO stage 2 beta 98 octane

After proving Stage 2 with Intercooler forge and Miltk Cat Sports I returned to Stage 1.

Stage 2 tries to increase the torque even below the 4,500 rpm ... over 4,500 rpm with the same identical performance as stage 1.

.

Hi Mate. No offense but i think this thread will be better focusing on APR for now. It might be better if mods can help set up a separate thread for this post about Revo?

#16
JamesBaby

Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:17 AM

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It was my car that has been used for the development of these 2 new maps, all of the tech talk doesn't really do it for me, but driving it with the new stage 2+ is phenomenal, I thought the car was good already, but now it really is that stupid grin thing, big thanks to Eric from APR America and everyone at Awesome,

I'm really looking forward to this.